Daily Kos

Why Citing of Reagan Legacy by Obama Disrespects Democratic Party

Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 04:33:41 PM PDT

"Reagan changed the trajectory of America in a way that Richard Nixon did not and in a way that Bill Clinton did not. He put us on a fundamentally different path because the country was ready for it."

– this is what Barack Obama told the conservative Reno Gazette-Journal editorial board prior to the Nevada caucuses.

This is a short diary for me; just wanted to point out one thing:  Does Obama really believe that if the Republican-controlled Supreme Court had not given the election to Bush in 2000, would Bill Clinton’s legacy still be less of a legacy than that of Ronald Reagan.  After all, Reagan governed for 8 years (all of those with a Democratic-controlled House of Representatives and an initially Republican Senate which turned Democratic during Reagan’s last two years), while Bill Clinton also governed for 8 years (with an initially Democratic Congress that later became Republican).  The difference is, of course, that Reagan was followed by his Vice-President Bush Sr., while Clinton was followed by Bush Jr.  As we all know, Bill Clinton’s Vice President, Al Gore won the popular vote, and Florida as well – but that was taken away from him by the Republican machine, courtesy of the Supreme Court.  

The point is – had Gore rightfully followed Clinton, the Clinton era would have been dramatically extended, and there is no doubt that the Clinton legacy would have left a far more longer-lasting impression on American society, and certainly, by 2005, would have eclipsed the Reagan-Bush legacy.  If we remember, the Democrats actually gained seats in Congress in 2000 – tied the Senate (which would have thus come under Democratic control with the VP breaking ties) and gained seats in the House as well.  The 2002 election may have turned out very differently had Gore become President, and although we don’t know how the 2004 election would have turned out, there’s a good chance Gore might have won re-election, and the Supreme Court would now have 6 progressives and 3 conservatives (thank you all Ralph Nader supporters , btw).  If you look just at the lower Court appointments (everything below the Supreme Court level; these appointments, btw, pretty much decide 99-99.9 of case law in the U.S. -- I don’t know the exact percentage, but only about 80 cases per year are actually heard by the Supreme Court out of tens of thousands which are decided by lower Courts), you can see that Bush, Jr. has left a lasting impression.

Looking at just the Circuit Courts of Appeal (the next level below the Supreme Court), the fact is that during only his first term (2001-2005) Bush, Jr. appointed almost 1/5 of all the judges (see statistics below) -- to the point, where out of 13 Circuit Courts of Appeal, only 2 (the 9th Circuit encompassing much of the west coast and the 2nd encompassing New York, Connecticut and Vermont) now lean "progressive":

Current Circuit Courts partisan breakdown (appointed by):
Nixon/Ford - 1
Carter - 7
Reagan - 22
Bush, Sr, - 22
Clinton – 60
Bush, Jr. (1st term) – 32
Bush, Jr. (2nd term) – 21

Current Republican-appointed: 98 (59%)
Current Democratic-appointed: 67 (41%)

Theoretical - had Gore become President in 2000 but lost re-election in 2004:
Republican-appointed: 66 (40%)
Democratic-appointed: 99 (60%)

Theoretical - had Gore become President in 2000 and won re-election in 2004:
Republican-appointed: 45 (27%)
Democratic-appointed: 120 (73%)

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/...

The example above of how the Judicial Branch would have now been dramatically different had Gore become President is just one example.  The country would have, no doubt, taken a different trajectory in innumerable other ways, via executive and judicial branch actions as well.  We can only speculate on where we would be today, but I think that everyone on this site would agree that America and Americans (and the world) would be in a much better spot now, and the Clinton-Gore legacy would have been a much stronger one, certainly stronger than that of Reagan.

In light of the above-mentioned facts, the Reagan-Bush "path" and "trajectory" which Obama speaks of would therefore have been dramatically altered, if not completely obliterated had Gore assumed his rightful place as the 43rd President of the United States.  So, the only reason Bill Clinton’s legacy is not as strong as that of Reagan is because of simple political fraud by the Republicans in 2000.  In light of all this, it is disingenuous (and I could use a stronger word here, but I’m trying to be nice) for Obama to even imply that Reagan more fundamentally changed the trajectory of America, because the whole idea is premised on some sort of assumption of fair play and an even playing field by the two parties over the last 10-15 years.  But due to what the Republicans did in 2000, this "fair play" and "even playing field" did not exist.  Thereby, the idea of Reagan’s "legacy" being "stronger", while arguably or technically true (although we can certainly argue over this too), may be true only because of the underlying Republican fraud in 2000.  Neither Obama nor any Democrat should ever cite Reagan as an example of any strong legacy, if only because of what happened in November and December of 2000.  This is deeply disrespectful to Democrats and to everything that our party stands for.

Tags: Barack Obama, Ronald Reagan, Legacy (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 71 comments

  •  Hey hey hey (9+ / 0-)

    Didn't you get the new talking points for writing Obama hit diaries, we've moved beyond Reagan and are now bringing up baseless Rezko concerns.

    Because I won't trade humanity for patriotism!

    by Drewid on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 04:35:06 PM PDT

    •  No - this is serious - not a mindless hit piece. (8+ / 0-)

      But Obama supporters are in the majority at dkos and are trashing the Clinton supporters in an appalling way.

      •  You catch the Obama hit piece (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Drewid

        based on a TNR essay?  Um... it goes both ways, at the very least.

        Their number is negligible and they are stupid. -- Eisenhower

        by Pegasus on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 04:39:32 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  no comment that relies... (6+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Marie, nightsweat, pattyp, scardanelli, Pegasus, LCA

        entirely upon a misrepresentation of a candidate's statement in order to decry it is ever "serious."

        •  I saw the Obama video, twice, and he said what (5+ / 0-)

          the diarist quoted.  I took Obama's words to mean that he thought what Reagan did when he changed the "trajectory" of America was a good thing.  When he said it he looked like he was engaged in some teacher's lounge philosophical discussion.  But this is real and Reagan's legacy is not worthy of admiration to say the least.

          Obama needs to stop acting like he has something to teach us, because he doesn't.  He seems to have forgotten that he is applying for a job and I want to get a really good look at his resume.  So far it ain't very good.

          If you don't have an earth-shaking idea, get one, you'll love building a better world.

          by hestal on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 05:03:59 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  and that is a misinterpretation... (3+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            twcollier, scardanelli, LCA

            I took Obama's words to mean that he thought what Reagan did when he changed the "trajectory" of America was a good thing.  

            His words had no such meaning... and considering, as I've pointed out, that his policy positions are antithetical to Reagan's, it would make little sense if he did.

            Obama needs to stop acting like he has something to teach us, because he doesn't.

            I find it rather refreshing to have a national candidate willing to have an intellectual discussion about politics with the public...

            He seems to have forgotten that he is applying for a job and I want to get a really good look at his resume.

            Statements on Reagan have nothing whatsoever to do with his resume... if you want a look at it there's a RenaRF rec list diary you should be reading, and if you like I could point you towards others.

            However, being aligned as I am,,, the resume of a former community organizer, civil rights lawyer, scholar of constitutional law, with over a decade in elected office possessing the most liberal voting record of any of our viable candidates is very good.

            •  I understand that statements about Reagan (1+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              blues lover

              are not the same as his resume, but they both are revealing.  I have looked at his resume and as I said in my comment above I am not impressed.

              If you don't have an earth-shaking idea, get one, you'll love building a better world.

              by hestal on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 05:23:07 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Whose resume do you find more impressive? (1+ / 0-)

                Recommended by:
                scardanelli

                Hillary's?  John Edwards's?

                •  That question is irrelevant to the discussion (0+ / 0-)

                  underway here.

                  If you don't have an earth-shaking idea, get one, you'll love building a better world.

                  by hestal on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 06:40:59 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Oh, come on (1+ / 0-)

                    Recommended by:
                    scardanelli

                    Hestal, you said you wanted to get a really good look at his resume, and then you said you looked at his resume and found it unimpressive.  So I asked you whose resume you find more impressive, and you respond by saying that's irrelevant?  Then why did you make the comment?  If you find his resume unimpressive for the job he's applying for, whose do you find impressive?  Who would you hire, if not him?
                       

                    BTW, that Packers and Giants game is a good one!  

              •  Not really revealing (3+ / 0-)

                Recommended by:
                twcollier, scardanelli, LCA

                I saw Barack Obama being merely objective.  I don't think he was giving an opinion on President Reagan or President Clinton.  The fact is, 1980 was a much different time than 1992.  In 1992, most of what was the concern was the economy.  In 1980, it was more than the economy.  Therefore, Reagan's campaign was much larger than politics, at least from how he projected himself.  Reagan didn't divide the country like Nixon did during the times of Watergate.

                I'm not in favor of the Reagan era nor Reagan's policies.  That doesn't mean I cannot acknowledge a great number of people were enthusiastic towards the man in 1980.  I mean, Reagan won 91% of the electoral collage in the 1980 election versus President Carter.  That's a greater percentage than the 68.8% electoral collage Clinton got.  Surely the American public at large back then in 1980 voted for Reagan because they were ready for change.

                •  There you go again, aping Obama. (0+ / 0-)

                  You say the people were ready for a change and so did he, but that indicates a lack of depth in your, and his, analysis.  What kind of change did they think they were getting?  And what kind of change did they get?  To say that Reagan was an agent of change is meaningless without context and evaluation.  Obama's manner clearly showed that he was impressed by Reagan as an agent of presidential change.

                  He is free to think that and so are you, but I am free to disagree with you and vote against him.  Isn't this country great or what?

                  If you don't have an earth-shaking idea, get one, you'll love building a better world.

                  by hestal on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 06:40:13 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

    •  There is a point here (6+ / 0-)

      Obama was implicietly trashing the nineties.  But he can't do it by trashing NAFTA and Welfare Reform because he agrees with NAFA and Welfare REform.

      He's boxed himself in.

      "It's a race to decide who the British goverment will follow blindly for the next 4 years" Kennedy/Kerry '08

      by Salo on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 04:43:49 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Thank you. Right on target. (8+ / 0-)

    Obama has consistently attacked the Democrats during t his campaign.

    As a lifelong Democrat, I strongly oppose his tactics, his praise of the Republicans & Reagan.  It is not what we need today.  

    •  Unlike his primary opponents? (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      twcollier

      Nonsense. He has gone no further than his rivals, and after all, it's primary season. His opponents right now are other Democrats.

      And he as not "praised Republicans." They won some elections, and that's a matter of public record. Pointing out how they won hearts & minds is not doling out admiration for their values or positions.

      John McCain: Getting Terrorists off America's Lawn since 1880

      by pat208 on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 04:44:04 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Nah. (4+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Marie, Pithy Cherub, Kimball, Mojo Jojo

    The environment that allowed Bush to be elected in the first place was a result of the narrative (government is the problem, not the solution, blah blah blah) that Reagan put into place.

    Nice try though, you almost had a new angle here.

    Their number is negligible and they are stupid. -- Eisenhower

    by Pegasus on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 04:37:56 PM PDT

  •  Reagan (11+ / 0-)

    did way more for his party than Clinton did for the Democrats.  Reagan changed the whole debate and brought his party to a natural majority.  Clinton plunged his party into a minority until 2006.

  •  I'm a Yellow Dog Democrat... (11+ / 0-)

    ... which means, lest people get their primary-color Dogs confused, that I would vote for a yella' dog over a Republican.

    And I don't feel disrespected in the least by Obama's remarks. He wasn't praising Reagan's ideas or philosophy, merely stating the fact that Reagan captured the public imagination. Now, he happened to have captured it using snake oil, or smoke and mirrors, or whatever. But he put together a huge coalition of people who believed in him.

    And he won two large landslide elections.

    I hope we can pull over enough votes from the now disillusioned remnants of that coalition, perhaps even change their way of thinking, and thump the GOP good for the next 10 years or so.

    John McCain: Getting Terrorists off America's Lawn since 1880

    by pat208 on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 04:39:16 PM PDT

    •  Andrew Johnson and the KKK (4+ / 0-)

      In the decade after the Civil War also "put us on a fundamentally different path" for nearly a century by first resisting and then ending Reconstruction.  Not all change is good.  

      "Great men do not commit murder. Great nations do not start wars." William Jennings Bryan

      by Navy Vet Terp on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 05:02:20 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  no one... (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        pat208, pattyp

        no one is suggesting Reagan's change was a change for the better. Not Obama. Not Clinton. No one.

      •  WTF? (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        pattyp, Kimball

        Which Democratic candidate is taking us down the road that led to the KKK? None of them, as far as I can tell. And I'll vote for whichever one gets the nod.

        This is crazy talk now. The change we're talking about is precisely the opposite direction - AWAY from the unholy coalition of the theocrats, plutocrats and kleptocrats. Away from exclusion, away from fear. Away from social and economic Darwinism.

        Some candidates are in a better position than others to make this change happen, to win over the disillusioned, to build an enduring coalition that can make it happen. All are better than what the Republicans are offering up as choices.

        John McCain: Getting Terrorists off America's Lawn since 1880

        by pat208 on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 05:09:04 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  True. (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        twcollier, Kimball

        But Obama didn't say the changes Reagan made were good, just that Reagan saw the country was hungry for a change, and he masterfully took advantage of it. No more than that. I'd love it if our next President was a progressive version of Reagan, but who used his or her power and charisma to effect changes that were good for the entire country, not just corporations and the wealthy elite, as Reagan did.

        Don't trust any UID over [insert current highest number here].

        by pattyp on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 05:09:32 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Some might argue (7+ / 0-)

    that having the former Preident of the Young Republicans from Wellesley College as the frontrunner for the nomination disrespects the Democratic Party.

  •  Yes. (5+ / 0-)

    well written. And true. The republican neo con shadow gov't is a reality full of criminal behaviors, uniting us by invoking Reagan is the same as a marriage counselor focusing on unity instead of accountability just after the husband has slapped his wife.

    The dems have been bitch slapped, our senator and congress have been cowed in to submission that really got going when Ronnie was in charge. He made it damn near treason to speak up for a democrat or poor people. Ronnie turned liberal into a bad word which simply meant that some of us felt that taking care of the poor was the christian thing to do.

    The only thing that would save my view of Obama was if he apologized for his comment recognizing the damage that has been done over the last 30 years. It's not been a level playing field.

    The greatest gift you can contribute to the goal of world peace is to heal.

    by wavpeac on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 04:39:21 PM PDT

    •  your implication... (6+ / 0-)

      The only thing that would save my view of Obama was if he apologized for his comment recognizing the damage that has been done over the last 30 years. It's not been a level playing field.

      Your implication that he has implied otherwise is false.

      Looming perhaps largest of all was Ronald Reagan, whose clarity about communism seemed matched by his blindness regarding other sources of misery in the world. I personally came of age during the Reagan presidency -- I was studying international affairs at Columbia, and later working as a community organizer in Chicago -- and like many Democratsin those days I bemoaned the effect of Reagan's policies toward the Third World: his administration's support for the apartheid regime of South Africa, the funding of El Salvador's death squads, the invasion of tiny, hapless Grenada. The more I studied nuclear arms policy, the more I found Star Wars to be ill conceived; the chasm between Reagan's soaring rhetoric and the tawdry Iran-Contra deal left me speechless.

      Audacity of Hope, pgs 288-289.

    •  hey, you have a point! (5+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      kenboy, pat208, pattyp, Kimball, Mojo Jojo

      Ronnie turned liberal into a bad word which simply meant that some of us felt that taking care of the poor was the christian thing to do.

      and how did he do that?

      that's right, by being an effective spokesman of his party.  by being a voice to (terrible) ideas and articulating them in a way that made americans believe.

      communication is a tool.  it is not good or evil.  obama is right to recognize the power of the tools reagan used.  obama is right to harnass those tools to undo the damage that has been done by reagan.

      and everyone else is foolish to dismiss respect for this tool as praise for republican ideas.  you miss the point and the democrats will lose again in 2008.

      •  So Obama, (0+ / 0-)

        he uses Liberal and Progressive in his speeches?  He's redefining those words so they aren't nasty slurs anymore?

        Gays managed to take control of the language, just a little bit.  That's how you win, by taking back the debate, word by word, meme by meme.

        Proud member of the Cult of Issues and Substance!

        by Fabian on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 04:56:37 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  No by calling names and slurring people. (3+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        lanikai, Fabian, blues lover

        You are ignorant if you think what Reagan did was "healthy" communication. I did a paper on his style of communicating. It's called attack anyone who disagrees and attack with a smile and some humor.

        The greatest gift you can contribute to the goal of world peace is to heal.

        by wavpeac on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 05:04:25 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Let's see, he also (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        marina, blues lover
        1. He did not run to the left in his primaries.
        1. He did not approach Democratic voters by appealing to their liberal values.
        1. He did not use Left-wing talking points in his speeches, also
        1. He demonised liberals both while campaigning and while President.

        I'd much rather hear, "I'm a liberal.  Here are the liberal values we share."  As opposed to "I'm not Conservative.  Let me show you my conservative values."  Running to the right during the primaries is called campaigning as a Republican-lite for a reason.

        'Kumbaya' is not a plan.

        by linnen on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 05:52:27 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  I'm glad somebody besides me (4+ / 0-)

    jumped the tip jar. My impression of the Reagan comment by Obama was that he was trying to kiss up to a conservative editorial board, in order to get their endorsement. He probably didn't think that it would be made public.

    I was born a millworker's daughter.....

    by cackyp on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 04:39:24 PM PDT

  •  your diary fails to understand... (8+ / 0-)

    that Obama's point was not fundamentally a question of accomplishment in office, but rather a matter of shifting the terms of political debate to the point of a majority of the American public self-identifying, right or wrong, with conservative "values" and "ideas." Obama wants to change that. Clinton did not fundamentally change the political landscape in such a manner. Gore might have, or might not have- given the opportunity... but it would not have been Clinton's legacy.

    •  no, I completely understand .... (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      lanikai, Fabian

      the point that he wasn't praising Reagan.

      But, he implied in his statement that Reagan's ideas are somehow long(er)-lasting b/c of some sort of inherent popularity -- but the real reason is simply b/c of what happened in 2000 the Repugs have simply been in power for so long now that they have essentially enshrined Reagan where a lot of people, incl. Obama apparently, see him in this light of having a long-lasting legacy and changing the American  trajectory.

      So, I do realize that Obama isn't praising Reagan's ideas, BUT, he is nevertheless -- in effect -- praising Reagan's political/popular acumen -- which to many Democrats like myself is just as bad, as the legacy we are talking about would have largely disappeared off the face of the planet had things turned out differently in 2000 (I hope you understand MY point).

      •  I admit to being impressed (0+ / 0-)

        with the power of the right wing and their control of the media so that Ronald Reagan, who should have been synonymous with the executive deliberately flouting the law and increasing government debt among other things, ended up being The Great Communicator instead.

        By all rights, we shouldn't be comparing Bush with Nixon, we should be comparing Bush to Reagan - in more ways than one.

        Proud member of the Cult of Issues and Substance!

        by Fabian on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 05:00:18 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Reagan's most essential idea was that (3+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        twcollier, Kimball, Mojo Jojo

        government should get off the backs of the people.  I think that's nonsensical, but it apparently resonated long and loudly enough for GWB to appropriate it for his 2000 election.  Clinton wasn't able to change that.  That's what Obama was observing.

        Their number is negligible and they are stupid. -- Eisenhower

        by Pegasus on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 05:01:01 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  this is... (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        twcollier, Fabian

        a relatively original, interesting argument.

        But, he implied in his statement that Reagan's ideas are somehow long(er)-lasting b/c of some sort of inherent popularity -- but the real reason is simply b/c of what happened in 2000 the Repugs have simply been in power for so long now that they have essentially enshrined Reagan where a lot of people, incl. Obama apparently, see him in this light of having a long-lasting legacy and changing the American  trajectory.

        There is no evidence to say that a Gore victory would have in any way shifted the political landscape in another direction. As I said above- it may have, but it would not have been a result of anything Clinton did... over the Clinton years the Democratic party largely conceded the self-image of Republicans as the the party of values, security and small and effective government. Clinton fought back by making specific gains (within the budget, for example)... but this did not change the terms of political debate in any way shape or form. George W. Bush and the excesses of the Republican congressional majority under him and against Clinton may have done more to damage Reagan's legacy than anything else... but that has only served voter disillusionment, not a shift to the Democratic party. The terms of the debate remain the same.

        he is nevertheless -- in effect -- praising Reagan's political/popular acumen

        Given the results, it would seem that what Obama said, whether or not it qualifies as praise, was accurate.

        the legacy we are talking about would have largely disappeared off the face of the planet had things turned out differently in 2000 (I hope you understand MY point).

        I see your point... I simply disagree. The difference is fairly academic, besides. Reagan's legacy is what it is in context of the past decade as well as his own time in office- but the same could be said of any circumstance. The conservative narrative has been sustainable over that time, which is in part due to its resonance within the public. It is quite an accomplishment to get the middle class voting against its own self-interest.

  •  OK. (7+ / 0-)

    Now the horse is nothing more than a skeleton. What flesh scavengers failed to remove has decomposed entirely. The bones of the horse - scattered over several square yards of the desert floor, are dry and sun bleached.

    But the beatings won't cease. A small cadre of would-be carriage passengers (all of whom are wearing Hillary '08 buttons) are gathered about the remains of the poor departed beast, wailing away with sticks, whips, and stones.

    "I suppose your guess is more or less as bad as mine." - The Replacements

    by turnover on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 04:40:20 PM PDT

  •  deliberately missing the point? (10+ / 0-)

    reagan obviously was an effective communicator.

    who cares what else he was.  he is still loved and adored, rightly or wrongly, by most americans.

    he is still viewed as a great president.

    can you say the same about bill clinton?

    are there "clinton republicans" out there that i have just never heard of?

    this diary only points out that you do not understand the context of obama's remark re: reagan.

    •  that's all true, but ... (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      lanikai

      would Reagan STILL be as "loved and adored, rightly or wrongly, by most Americans" had 2000 turned out differently ... remember, the winners usually write (political) history, and 8 years (the last 8 years) are a long time ??

      and how would Bill Clinton look now -- had the results in 2000 been different ? -- that is the point of the diary (I fully realize that Obama was not praising Reagan).

    •  Clinton (0+ / 0-)

      Left office with approval ratings above 70%. Reagan's were not that good:

      http://www.fair.org/...

      "If I pay a man enough money to buy my car, he'll buy my car." Henry Ford

      by johnmorris on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 07:16:00 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Goddamn it, it is not about Party (4+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Marie, Fabian, mjd in florida, turnover

    it's about America!

    John W. McCain, Bush's third term.

    by aaraujo on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 04:43:25 PM PDT

  •  If? (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    pat208, Kimball

    Why would a candidate for President in 2008 analyze American politics by assuming he could go back in time and change history?  I really don't understand the point of the diary here.

    The Supreme Court did, shamefully, hand the 2000 presidential contest to George W. Bush.  That's the reality.  It does little good to imagine that somehow they didn't -- and even less to criticize a candidate for not making the same assumption in analyzing the state of American politics in 2008.

  •  As Doris Kearns Goodwin said (9+ / 0-)

    this morning on Meet the Press, all Obama did was point out a historical fact.

    •  It's not a fact (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      linnen, marina

        Kearns Goodwin might like it to be a fact, but it is an historical interpretation, a way of characterizing and explaining certain facts.  Many don't agree with that interpretation, and think that other interpretations explain the facts better.

  •  Sorry - Obama's statement (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Fabian, Kimball, Mojo Jojo

    is factually correct.  Ike and Nixon did nothing to rollback the New Deal (supported some policies that expanded it) which since '32 has been the GOP agenda.  Reagan got the ball rolling on this and it CONTINUED through Clinton (and significantly so) and GWB.  

    Crony-capitalism or New Deal are the two basic political choices in this country.  What ticks off the old guard GOP is that Reagan accepted massive federal debt in lieu of quickly wiping out New Deal social programs and the most traditional old guard GOP are isolationists who don't like massive MIC spending either (Pat Buchanan would fall into that group).    

    What FDR giveth; GWB taketh away.

    by Marie on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 04:49:36 PM PDT

  •  He knows Bill Clinton was The Man, so (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Fabian, marina

    he's gotta signal Clinton's fiscal responsibility w/o actually giving props to Clinton.  For inexplicable reasons, Reagan is a signifier of fiscal conservativism, so he's a semantic substitute for Clinton's economic policies.

    IMHO, that's what was going on.

    •  I think you may be right. (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      linnen, MRGNTN

      Obama certainly can not give a lot of credit to Bill Clinton without undercutting his canidacy.  So it's easier to skim past Clinton altogether without pointing out either the good things or the bad things that happened during his term.

      Proud member of the Cult of Issues and Substance!

      by Fabian on Sun Jan 20, 2008 at 05:03:02 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Revisionist History (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    twcollier

    We all know, much as we might wish to state otherwise, that Ronald Reagan transformed American politics, while Bill Clinton did not.  Reagan left Americans with a narrative of distrust in government, hatred for taxation, and unthinking confidence in the military, and Bill Clinton failed to shake this narrative.  To give him a (little)bit of credit he tried for a few years, but after the setbacks in 1994 Clinton basically gave up and became a triangulator who aimed to small things.  Do the words Dick Morris remind you of anything?

    It was tragic that Al Gore who I personally think would have been a far greater president than Bill Clinton never became president because maybe then we could speak of a greater legacy.

    •  The best evidence (0+ / 0-)

      of how Reagan (unfortunately) transformed American politics is the presidency of Bill Clinton.  Clinton was a good president, because he was a good manager of the country:  eight years of peace and prosperity (basically).  But he was not a great president because he did not accomplish big things.  One of Bill Clinton's two biggest accomplishments was welfare reform.  (The other was eliminating the federal budget deficit).  The rest was all little stuff -- school uniforms, etc.  That is not a strong progressive legacy.
          Hillary Clinton could be a good manager and a good president.  I am afraid that she will not be a great president.  People like Mark Penn are already polling and triangulating away like mad on her behalf, figuring out how best to split the differences and win enough small victories to get her re-elected in four years.
         I want our next president to be a Democrat, first of all.  And I also want him or her to become a great president.
          I believe Barack Obama could be a great president.

  •  Reagan (0+ / 0-)

    See my Dairy (tag REagon) for a really close look at the Reagan years. Posted about 8:00 Sat night. They are a sham and a disgrace
    Myles Spicer

Permalink | 71 comments